[the webdaily=Lee so-young] I met with the artist duo Elmgreen & Dragset, who has an exhibition called 'Adaptations', at the Kukje Gallery until the 28th of April.
Elmgreen & Dragset, who are based in Berlin, gained international fame for their interesting work that reinterprets the meaning of everyday space.
Elmgreen(right) & Dragset(left) (The Observer) Photo : Chunho An / Image: Kukje Gallery
Q.Congratulations on your second solo exhibition in Seoul. Please tell me about this exhibition.
A. Elmgreen : The series, which will be presented at the K3 exhibition hall at the Kukje Gallery, is also titled 'Adaptation', which is the same title as the exhibition. Also, there is one of our works placed outside the window, so don't miss it.
We exhibited works that were inspired by highways at the K3. It shows how public places control and limit our behavior. Perhaps a hundred years ago, people won't have understood our current behavior of using the road signs to determine the speed limits. But, isn't it interesting how people in modern society follow the road signs without thinking twice!
'Adaptation' series uses asphalt and paint to represent the rules of direction through straight and curved lines. At times, there are so many rules and regulations in public locations that we forget what to do. We are presenting a message to refocus the rational and reasonable responses of man to define right and wrong actions. The K3, similar to neon, with large windows and lighting, was configured to give a sense of outdoor space. We wanted to create an exhibition object as if it was derived from reality, giving the visitors an opportunity to rediscover their daily lives.
A. Dragset : The artworks presented at K2 exhibition were designed to focused on the private lives and the body. The sculpture 'Tailbone', which depicts the tailbone, expressed the evolution of man and the changing society. It was made with the idea that the shape of our tailbones will probably change by 2075 if humans continue to use the Internet, sitting at one place, as they do now.
Q. Please recommend an artwork that you would like for us to focus on.
A. Dragset :The hand-shaped sculpture 'Doubt' on the wall was inspired by Italian artist Karavaggio's 'The Incredulity of Saint Thomas'. Like the disciple of Jesus, Thomas, who believed in him only after placing his finger into the wound of Jesus, he portrays a modern man who is in a constant doubt about everything. 'The Observer', the man standing on the balcony, represents a man immersed deep solely in his thought.
A. Elmgreen : Yes it is, the balcony is an interesting structure. It's both interior and exterior, so it's ambiguous. The sculpture of a man, smoking in the morning on the balcony, appears classic as a Greek-era sculpture.
But he is looking at us, wearing a cheap 21st century training pants. The two male torsos facing each other, 'The Influence, Fig' 1 and 2 is a work which reveals the fact that Dragset and I originally started out as a performance artist. There is a finger mark on the waist of the classic torso, which remind us of human violence and love at the same time.
During the exhibition, we plan to have a performance where we will switch around the position of the sculptures.
Q. Your works are more interesting because they were inspired by the modern social realities of the 21st century.
A. Elmgreen : In modern times, oneself is the center of the world. Even when people walk down the street, they see themselves, not around them. It's interesting that we are more self-centered than ever before, as I am also part of the selfie generation.
The Looped Bar, a sculpture that no one can enter, was also created in this context. Another meaning for the 2019 bar is a social alienation. There are special bars that not anyone can enter.
However, in this work, no one can enter it, therefore it’s democratic. Recently, I was denied entry at a bar in Miami(laughs). Consequently, it also contains a message criticizing the culture of VIPs in the art world.
A. Dragset : Twenty years ago, the bar was a place for communication and meeting. But now that everyone is communicating via SNS, this bar is empty. The bottle sculpture behind the bar, 'Color Field', is a glass work symbolizing aesthetic beauty.
Q. In the first individual exhibition held in Seoul in 2015, it was interesting to see you recreate the Plato Museum of Art as an international airport. So this time around, I also expected to see you create the Kukje Gallery into another new space.
A. ElmGreen : (laughs) I wanted to go against that expectation. We don't always try to present an installation of immersive narratives like that. I wanted to get out of the stereotyped frame. I was bored when my parents decorated the Christmas tree the same way year after year since I was seven years old. I told them one time, "Can you surprise me with a different decoration" I've had this desire to surpass the expectations since I was a child.
In this exhibition, I wanted to focus on each individual piece of work. Since we were originally a poet and a stage actor, we are more interested in sculpture than other genres. This time around, we wanted to go back to the basics of sculpture to deal with materialism. It's a 100% brand new work.
Q. Please tell me how the two of you met and got to work together for the first time.
A. Elmgreen : I am from Denmark, and Dragset is from Norway. In 1994, we happened to have a conversation at a club in Copenhagen, Denmark. We had our offices in the same building at the time, so we talked a lot on the way back. At that time I was a poet, and Dragset was a stage actor. Although we did not major in art, we knew a gallerist, so in 1995, we naturally had an opportunity to performed together. At that time, the contemporary art scene in Northern Europe was really small. But Hans-Ulrich, the director of Serpentine Gallery, praised our work and it allowed us to enter the art world.
Q.What is the reason for moving your base to Berlin, Germany?
A. Elmgreen : We've been working together in Berlin since 1997. This is because after the fall of the Berlin Wall, we wanted to focus on the creation of a new art scene.
Paris or London already had a solid infrastructure, with a high entry barrier for up and coming young artists. In Berlin, it was good because young artists could create a new scene together.
Another reason is, at that time in Northern Europe, there was a lack of open mindedness about modern art. Consequently, they did not like our performances and artworks.
Q. Do you still write poetry? Or perform on stage?
A. Elmgreen : I still write poetry sometimes. Recently, I included a poem in a collection of works published by Phaidon Publishing. The difference between poetry and art is that visual art is more social. Through an exhibition, we can communicate with the visitors and also receive feedbacks.
On the other hand, poetry is a process of walking on a lonely path. Whereas, modern art is so broad that it encompasses a variety of genres, so naturally a poem can be a part of that. Some artists read poems as part of their performances.
I once presented an apartment space at the V&A Art Museum(Victoria & Albert), and I wrote a book then. It was about an imaginary apartment and a real person written as a fiction. We presented the book inside the exhibition so the visitors can read them.
Also, I once wrote a poem in Danish, and I think only 300 out of 5 million Danish people read it (laughs). The poem was presented through an old monitor at Copenhagen Gallery. In order to communicate and share with society, it is necessary to create a work with the viewer in mind rather than having a piece hung in an empty gallery.
A. Dragset : In the past, I presented an artwork based on the story about the character in playwright Samuel Beckett's 'Happy Days'. I like poetry also. The work of a famous poet, Inger Christensen, is the essence of Danish poetry.
'The Influence, Fig' 1 and 2 / Image: Kukje Gallery
Q. You are projecting modern society through your work. What do you think of the recent SNS craze?
A. Elmgreen : I don't like SNS, but I do have an Instagram account. I was forced to set up an account because someone impersonated me. One of the advantages of SNS is that it is easy to gather good exhibition information even if you’re not a VIP. I also communicate via SNS at times, and The Wall Paper magazine proposed a collaboration with the designers for the Milan Design Fair exhibition in April.
A. Dragset : The majority of our followers are artists. I can't attend all the exhibitions in the world so I use Instagram to check up on the current status of other artists. And even when I directed the Istanbul Biennale in 2017, it was convenient because I could update the information daily.
Q. Michael Elmgreen and Ingar Dragset have been working together for more than 20 years. I wonder what is the difference between the two of you in your working style.
A.Elmgreen : Conflicts and differences are the sources of inspiration. Artists with a lot of interactions with their surroundings and characters have an advantage. In addition, we get a lot of ideas through the interaction with the art world.
Q. What do you think art is?
A.Dragset : I'm still thinking. I started art in a very different field than my major. We have been performing freely in public places, and have formed various discourse. It was like a festival. Rather than defining what art is, I focus on what kind of art I should do.
A.Elmgreen : If you can define what art is as an artist, maybe the time has come for you to stop working?(laughing)I think art is a new form of language. When you look at the work after it's done, it looks new, and it seems like it's expressing a different opinion. Therefore, it is not right to make a conclusion before completing your work.
Q.For the many people who think modern art is difficult, can you say something as an artist?
A.Dragset : My family members in Norway are not artists. But as I got started in art, their interest and knowledge are growing over time. I think everyone will like art once they get interested.
A.Elmgreen : Many people approach exhibitions as if they are taking a test. There is no right answer when viewing an exhibition,and art does not provide the right answer. The purpose of art is to provide an interest. Sometimes the various views of the visitors are superior to ours.
Q.What are your future plans?
A.Elmgreen : Next time I come to Korea, I want to go to Jeju Island for a vacation. Seoul is also a good place to look around because it has different characteristics in different areas.
A.Dragset : After the opening of the exhibition at the Kukje Gallery, we are going straight to Hong Kong. The large installation 'City in the Sky' will be showcased at Hong Kong Art Basel,while the Massimo de Carlo gallery will present a private exhibition, 'Overheated'. 'City in the Sky' is an idea inspired from the metropolis ofskyscrapers. It is a work that questions the meaning of an ideal modern city by hanging an imaginary city upside down.
본 기사는 2019년 4월 9일 게재된 '엘름그린&드라그셋 "현대미술의 역할은 무엇인가?"' 인터뷰를 영문으로 번역한 기사입니다.
